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User talk:Otherarrow
For past messages, see here, here, here, here, here, here, and here. Thanks For messages left here on this talk page, I will respond on this talk page. It gets confusing and tiresome having to jump from talk page to talk page to read a conversation or add a comment.--Otherarrow 04:50, February 4, 2012 (UTC) Sweetheart! I love you more than I carrots and potatoes! We'd been together for so long! And I'm on top! I love you so much, my wonderful person! Thanks for being my lover for so long already. ^_^ --The Tomato Fairy (talk) 06:01, May 13, 2015 (UTC) :Aww, thank you sweetie. I love you very much, and I want us to be together for longer still! You are the best.--Otherarrow (talk) 06:04, May 13, 2015 (UTC) Making the skins look like one of the ingame menus Hey, regarding that, it's a great idea and I've been thinking but I still can't think of anything. Did you have any ideas in mind then let's hear it and we'll see what we can do =] Khang (talk) 00:20, August 17, 2015 (UTC) :The idea I had in mind when I thought of it was the menus from Old Mystery, like, blue box over a background map or something. I dunno. The text would be white? I drew up a really bad mock up in paint if you want to see.--Otherarrow (talk) 00:57, August 17, 2015 (UTC) :I made one for the homepage which retained everything but had the "Want to venture forth?" clicking yes would lead to a random page or category pages, no would go back to the wikia homepage without really changing much, but he thought differently over the articles that look like a menu itself. I just did this right now. (I should've used the random text generator) --The Tomato Fairy (talk) 01:03, August 17, 2015 (UTC) Lol, that's nice Tomato Fairy, but I'm not sure if that's necessary. And yea, I'd love to see the mock up Otherarrow — Khang (talk) 01:23, August 17, 2015 (UTC) ::Yeah, here it is: Mock up. I hope it gets the idea across and isn't too embarrassingly bad.--Otherarrow (talk) 01:50, August 17, 2015 (UTC) Welp, here're the visual mockups based on your idea. I couldn't find any good FE3 map so I took the world map of Akaneia of Shadow Dragon instead. Tell me what you think. -- Khang (talk) 04:29, August 17, 2015 (UTC) Sorry for butting in. I thought I understood what he meant, then got excited making a mock-up and encouraged him to do the same. Turns out our ideas were different. :( His is way better when I saw it, but I found my mock-up funny. --The Tomato Fairy (talk) 09:22, August 17, 2015 (UTC) :It's ok =] -- Khang (talk) 12:32, August 17, 2015 (UTC) ::Well, the idea I had for the mock up was "FE3 stat menu", and having a overworld map instead of a in game map does kinda wreck that idea. Also, the blue I used in my mock up isn't the blue actually used in Mystery, just the closest equivalent I could find from the default paint options. Is there no place to find FE3 maps? If worse comes to worse, we may have to find the tileset and build our own.--Otherarrow (talk) 16:48, August 17, 2015 (UTC) ::Here's what he wants! I was able to make it! :D --The Tomato Fairy (talk) 19:14, August 17, 2015 (UTC) Thanks TFairy. Here're a few options. If you don't like either of these maps, pls provide me another. -- Khang (talk) 08:47, August 18, 2015 (UTC) ::I like the first option myself. Fits the feel I was going for, and the background isn't either too sparse (like 3), or too obviously on loop (like 2). It doesn't get all of what Tomato had, such as the separate boxes for Wiki Activity and Videos and etc being over the map too, but with Wikia's skin we can do so much. This works great!--Otherarrow (talk) 20:17, August 18, 2015 (UTC) I personally like the 1st option also due to the fact that its map's quality is much better than the other 2. And it's possible to achieve what TFairy showed in her mock up via some lines of CSS code but I wouldn't recommend that as it doesn't follow Wikia's layout which may result in various difficulties for both readers and the wiki itself. So I suggest we should stick with that ↑. If you're fine with that, I'll make a forum to ask if there're any objections. -- Khang (talk) 03:58, August 19, 2015 (UTC) ::OK, you can go ahead and make the forum.--Otherarrow (talk) 21:27, August 19, 2015 (UTC) Um In case you haven't noticed > User talk:KhangND#Main_Page_colors. -- [[User:KhangND|'Khang']] (talk) 01:09, August 31, 2015 (UTC) Class History Sections I'm trying to do a class history for most of the Long Running classes, feel free to help if you can. Working on Fighter, right now. Emperor Hardin (talk) 02:43, August 31, 2015 (UTC) I was thinking do you think we should make the FE3 Berserker, its own page? Speaking of which, I heard from FE3 hackers that the Book 2 class only works with that specific map normally. Emperor Hardin (talk) 02:52, September 3, 2015 (UTC) Do you have any thoughts on the FE3 Berserker having its own page? Also more class info, the Soldier in FE3 has a player palette, and Playable data in the Arena, which gives opponents based on the users class. This is different from other unplayable classes like Pirate, if a pirate is put in the Arena, he'll always face a Lord! Emperor Hardin (talk) 19:46, September 7, 2015 (UTC) :Yeah, I was looking through sprites, and not only does the Solider have a "player" palette, so does the male Dracoknight (but not the male Pegasus Knight). Certain classes also have an enemy palette despite not, to my knowledge, ever showing up as enemies, such as female Dismounted units and the "Merric" Bishop variant. Anywho, FE3 Berserker? It's technically not related to the existing Berserker class by any means, so I'm leaning on split? I am not sure if there is much precedence for "class shares name with earlier one shot class, but is otherwise completely different". The only I can think of is Dark Knight (which there is no way in hell any of those will be merged) and Shaman (no way in hell we can figure out what to do with a split, since it involves at least two other classes as well).--Otherarrow (talk) 22:24, September 7, 2015 (UTC) * Male Dismounted units also have a player palette too: they wear light purple armor with red hair. I think Male Dismounted Paladin might also have a player palette, but I'm not totally sure. Thats really interesting about the Merric Bishop having an enemy palette. For example, I know Lord has no Enemy palette, while Pirate has no Player Palette, and only works with specific maps(I guess Darros was cut early). Meeting Dismounted enemies would certainly give more variety to the indoor chapters where melee enemies just consist of Armor Knights, and Soldiers, with Heroes being rarely encountered in later chapters. * This is a crazy guess, but I'm thinking Soldier might've been a dismounted variant of a regular class at one point. Though its also possilbe they were introduced to give more enemy variety to indoor chapters. * I'll go Ahead and get ready to split the Berserker then. I'll also note that the Swordmaster that replaced him in the DS version, and that there's more then one on Lunatic mode in the remake. Emperor Hardin (talk) 00:51, September 8, 2015 (UTC) Heimler I don't know the whole story, but in the fan translation at least, Camus says Heimler took Thoron from Bishop Boah, while in FE3, and FE11 he says Volzhin took it. It would be weird if Camus mentioned Heimler if he wasn't in, but its not impossible? Emperor Hardin (talk) 02:50, September 3, 2015 (UTC) I think there were simply too few people who played the original FE1 and read the claim about Heimler being unused. I've checked a number of sources (including some Japanese videos) and Heimler is indeed in the south-western corner in the original. His stats are listed here as unit 4: http://minmeibooks.web.fc2.com/kouryaku/fea/FEA12.html Paladin Level 1, HP 22, STR 8, SKL 7, SPD 11, DEF 9, MOV 10, EXP 44, Silver Lance, Knight Crest/Proof (the latter is dropped) Knight|Aveyn Knight] (talk) 20:36, September 6, 2015 (UTC) :Huh, so that'd explain it. And it seems his stats in Shadow Dragon are pretty much a straight copy of his Dark Dragon stats too, huh. Anywho, thanks a lot for finding that info!--Otherarrow (talk) 20:48, September 6, 2015 (UTC) :Speaking of Heimler, any idea on what he and his friends are doing in that corner there; Guarding treasure, going shopping, just hanging out? Emperor Hardin (talk) 00:51, September 8, 2015 (UTC) Chevalier Deletion Why did you delete the Chevalier page I only added it about a 1/2 hour ago. It even had more info than the Kouga page. It didn't have enough time for people to add to it. Ajitunes13. :Oh, sorry, it was poorly formatted and I couldn't tell what it was trying to say, so I thought it was a spam page. We get those every now and then, when someone basically "fills" a red link with nonsense. Let's see...a "starter page" should have a clear basis for what the page is about, proper formatting, and appropriate categorization and templates. Look at similar pages from the same game (such as Nohr for example) to see what I mean. It doesn't have to be fully fleshed out (that's why we got the Stub template after all) but it needs to be at least readable enough that folks know what to add to it.--Otherarrow (talk) 16:27, September 7, 2015 (UTC) Sorry, but what do you mean by poorly formatted just so I know what to change. Ajitunes13. :The article name in the opening wasn't bolded, the page wasn't categorized, and the appropriate templates weren't added. Don't worry, I restored and fixed the page. Sorry for the knee jerk reaction there. .-.--Otherarrow (talk) 16:34, September 7, 2015 (UTC) It's alright. Ajitunes13. Infoboxes I intend to change the current infobox's design again and I already had something in mind. What do you think? -- [[User:KhangND|'Khang']] (talk) 08:29, September 9, 2015 (UTC) :Go for it.--Otherarrow (talk) 17:20, September 9, 2015 (UTC) Why did you remove FE13's camus from the archetypes page? A quote from the archetypes page,Holds no ill towards the player's army,and may have even loved ones or friends in that army,but continues to fight due to loyalty to his or her nation or lord,despite being fully aware that what their nation or lord is doing wrong and knowing full well they will perish in battle. See that last 5 words there? No? If you are not playing in hard mode or higher of course he's going to be a easy boss. DarkPit001 (talk) 09:29, September 20, 2015 (UTC) :We've been over this multiple times, heck, read Talk:Archetype sometimes. The short version: Mufasa, like Yen'fay in the Valm arc, has no real loyalty to Gangrel and only fights Chrom because Gangrel is threatening to kill his family. The key word: Loyalty. The point of the Camus archetype is having to fight a just man or even a former comrade due to their stubborn, seemingly blind loyalty to their cause or leader. Mufasa gives zero shits about the Plegian cause and has no commitment to Gangrel. He only fights because Gangrel is holding the lives of his family over his head. (Also, Mufasa is not even the first "sympathetic one-shot boss" in the series, so I don't get why folks are so obsessed with counting him and not like, Eagler or something.)--Otherarrow (talk) 16:07, September 20, 2015 (UTC) Proper image size for .png Hello Otherarrow, I was wondering which is theproper size for character image since I try to upload the original size, but the file was too big to upload. AzureJay 2:05, September 20, 2015 (UTC) :Beats me. Look at other pngs and see what size they are at?--Otherarrow (talk) 21:19, September 20, 2015 (UTC) I was able to upload a character image of Marth by 2,709 × 3,475 and tried with the other images, and it still said it too large to upload. AzureJay 2:43, September 20, 2015 (UTC) :The maximum file size allowed to be uploaded on wikia is 10MB, you should resize your image if it exceeds that value. Thanks for your work with the images btw ^^ -- [[User:KhangND|'Khang']] (talk) 00:45, September 21, 2015 (UTC) Archetype chitchat I probably should finish the Gender, Generic, and FE3 Berserker page first, but I was thinking do you think we should put a note that Kein, and Alva kinda like they'd be part of the archetype, but officially aren't listed in the Official list of Cain and Abel styled Cavaliers? On a related subject, I noticed some putting Mustafa in the Camus archetype, while he's sympathetic, he's ultimately minor. We've had several Sympathetic minor bosses in the past like Yodel, and that knight in service of Oliver that I can't remember the name of. Emperor Hardin (talk) 21:48, September 22, 2015 (UTC) :Yeah, I think the Kain and Alva thing is worth noting. If I had the rest of the scans, I'd probably be able to make the page as definitive as I could, but shrug. And yeah, Mustafa is not a Camus at all and people who say he is are basically simplifying the Archetype to "boss who isn't a jerk" (though they probably are counting him because they want every game to have someone in every archetype).--Otherarrow (talk) 22:35, September 22, 2015 (UTC) ::Sure, we can also re-write their pages a little bit, as it currently mentions them as part of the archetype. Sidenote, what they thinking with how Lance Knights worked in Thracia? I always feel bad for minor bosses loyal to a superior who later joins the protagonists, EX: Merach, Kanatz. And yeah, not every game has to have every archetype. Also I wanted to ask, what is your view on Iron Knight being merged with Great Knight? Emperor Hardin (talk) 23:52, September 22, 2015 (UTC) :::I think someone (you actually) mention they exist separately within TRS, yeah? Now, for TRS, we have made exceptions to the "if it's distinct in it's own game, it's a separate class" rule, like with Mercenary/Fighter, but...hrm. The concept of Great Knight as "mount and armor" didn't come until The Sacred Stones, which is after TRS, and in all incarnations, the Great Knight has had Axe use (it even originally promoted from an exclusively Axe using class), which the Iron Knight doesn't seem to have. So on one hand, armored mounted unit who promoted from Armor Knight; on the other, Great Knight co-exists with it in TRS, it lacks the Great Knight's signature weapon type, and the fact that the similarities didn't come to the Great Knight until after TRS. Similarity in hindsight, basically. So...It's iffier than Fighter/Mercenary, at least.--Otherarrow (talk) 00:22, September 23, 2015 (UTC) ::::From what I remember hearing, Great Knights appear in the arena, I know that Axe knight appears. Berwick Saga definitely features Great Knight as a playable class promoting from Axe Knight(not the TRS Soldier class, which the BErwick class page currently links to. The Sacred Stones version of Great Knight has pretty much become its own class in my opinion, not only was Great Knight in RD translated as Axe Paladin out of Japan, the Fates version of the class even has a low Axe rank with a much higher lance and Axe Rank. Also Speaking of the TRS infantry classes, I'm pretty sure they're inspired by Axe Soldier, Sword Soldier, and Regular Soldier/Spear Soldier. What do you think? Emperor Hardin (talk) 02:49, September 23, 2015 (UTC) ::::I'm thinking of linking King Knight in Tearring Saga to Master Knight, would you be ok with that. King's Knight has equal caps to Gold Knight, both having the best mounted caps in the game, is extremely rare(only one playable character has it), and has access to all physical weapons. Note in the TCG game, Master Knights, Barons, and Emperors were split into Magical and physical Variants. Finally King Knight loses all weapon use, but sword when dismounted just like their unused variant in Thracia. What do you think? Emperor Hardin (talk) 20:44, September 24, 2015 (UTC) ::You make a good point, but don't we already have a page for King's Knight?--Otherarrow (talk) 22:22, September 24, 2015 (UTC) :We do, but it just says King's Knight is a clas in Tearring's Saga. Do you have any view on remarking on the similarities between the TRS Infantry classes, and the Weapon variants Soldier that were going to be in FE4? I was thinking of noting the similarities. Emperor Hardin (talk) 23:44, September 24, 2015 (UTC) ::Go ahead, you don't have to ask. My TRS knowledge is limited to what's on the wiki basically.--Otherarrow (talk) 01:00, September 25, 2015 (UTC) ::Sure, do you think I should make King's Knight redirect to Master Knight as well? Emperor Hardin (talk) 01:01, September 25, 2015 (UTC) :::If you think so?--Otherarrow (talk) 01:48, September 25, 2015 (UTC) ::::Maybe we can do a vote? Or I can at least mention it? Also how should I mention how the Brigand Class in FE3 are just renamed fighters? Emperor Hardin (talk) 05:53, September 28, 2015 (UTC) ::::I forgot to mention, the Wood Shooter class in Tearring Class temporarily becomes the Ballista or catapult when using certain weapons. This kinda combines the two mechancis for Ballisticians. Another thing I noticed after reading up upon, is Hagaru seems to be based on Jake, he has the same "I like beautiful girls, and I don't like attacking them" allowing you to recruit him. I guess thats more proof that the Beck and Jake had switched portraits in the NES version! Emperor Hardin (talk) 06:29, October 1, 2015 (UTC) ::::I changed up Kain, and Alva's pages to mention the confusion, tell me what you think of it. ::::Also I did some work on the Archetype page. A Thing to remember is many Pure Jeigans are actually useful throughout the entire game despite Low growths, Dagdar for example is at the top of most Tier Lists. Due to incredible growth boosts from scrolls, Base Growths are said to be one of the least important factors in effectiveness in Thracia 776. I also edited the Wendel Section, in the original game alone, Wendel has better growths then most magic units, including Lena who had terrible growths in the NES Version. ::::One last thing, do you mind if the Trebuchet(Catapult) class in Tearr Ring saga just links to Ballistican, as its the Stonehoist weaopn basically. Emperor Hardin (talk) 07:48, October 4, 2015 (UTC) Soldier I've been thinking about this for a while and maybe we should separate the playable Soldier class from the NPC Soldier class and merge the playable Soldier class with the Lance Fighter class as they have more in common with each other than they do with the NPC class. Thoughts? Are You Serious (talk) 03:17, October 5, 2015 (UTC) No, it's the same class but different in between games. We don't agree with it, Are You Serious. -- The Tomato Fairy (talk) 20:12, October 6, 2015 (UTC) :::Yeah, sometimes, a class has different properties between games while still being essentially the same class. As the write up on Soldier states, while it didn't become its recognizable playable form until Path of Radiance, it didn't become a weak mook class until Thracia 776, and before that, it was a first tier Armor Knight. Are you suggesting we split off Soldier the NPC class, Soldier the first tier Armor, and Soldier the first tier Halberdier, because of essentially promotion? (and this sets precedence for other classes with different properties between games, such as Dragon Knight or Bow Knight, Do we split them too?). Lance Fighter is irrelevant; it's already on it's own page.--Otherarrow (talk) 20:21, October 6, 2015 (UTC) :::: Sometimes stuff like that happens, for now, I'll work on an edit to the history noting how Lance Fighter is the successor to Tellius Soldiers. Speaking of which, in Berwick Saga, there are to two classes named Thief, a playable one composed of professional spies in the Mercenary category, and a enemy exclusive version in the Cut-Throat category. Both have different stat caps. There also appears to be two different Dark Soldiers with different caps. One appears to be the Dismounted version of Dark Knight, and the other the dismounted form of Dark Rider, the presumed unprompted Dark Knight. Emperor Hardin (talk) 20:45, October 6, 2015 (UTC) Header Yes, I would love to hear your thought instead of seeing you reverting my effort to find something more special to highlight the header, and leave something like "What is with that ugly font?". It is indeed offensive and what could be worse is causing a fight if it was somebody else... -- [[User:KhangND|'Khang']] (talk) 13:55, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :Ah, sorry. I was taken off guard to see the header font suddenly change, in my opinion, for the worse. I was rude, yeah, I apologize. It won't happen again. Now let me expain: The chosen font, I feel, was ill fitting for the rest of the page and stuck out too much. Also, it looked way too, well, bubbly for a series like Fire Emblem. The way it clashed with the rest of the page was, for lack of a better term, ugly to my eyes. I hope I didn't sound rude with this explaination. And again, apologizes for my rude reaction. It was a kneejerk response.--Otherarrow (talk) 17:48, October 8, 2015 (UTC) Lancer Do you mind if I make Lancer, a disambiguation page? Alot of classes use the name? Emperor Hardin (talk) 20:43, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :Oh, right. That's fine.--Otherarrow (talk) 21:42, October 8, 2015 (UTC) :: Thanks, maybe you can clean up the history section for the Soldier Article too? On a related subject, what a confusing name choice to give Soldier! Emperor Hardin (talk) 00:44, October 9, 2015 (UTC) :: Just wanted to let you know about my latest edit on General. Tell if you're ok with it? Emperor Hardin (talk) 01:07, October 13, 2015 (UTC) :::It's fine.--Otherarrow (talk) 01:40, October 13, 2015 (UTC) Mostly TRS/BRS talk * The Sword/Bow labeled Warrior isn't Warrior. The Japanese site translated calls it Over Warrior, while actual Warriors just called Warrior show up, and wield axes just like in Tear Ring Saga. * Axe Soldiers seem to make a comeback in Berwick, I think Sword Soldiers do too. * Classes are more character specific in Berwick Saga. Promotion is less important, as Weapon ranks seem to be the only difference in Stat caps. * Certain Individuals can have an additional weapon different from the class norm, at least for Free Knight. * Many normally Promoted classes seem basically unconnected to their normal tier 1 form. Like Generals, while still an armored unit, look vastly different from Knights, with thin, non bulky armor, covered by ornate cloth. They also wield swords, unlike the Axe using Knights. * There's another Armored class caleld Gigas Knight that uses axes, and exclusively uses the powerful Gigas Axe. Would you mind, if I removed the Merge proposal on Iron Knight, talking it over with Khang, he agreed that there was enough of a difference? Finally I put a Merge on Lance General with General, as Lance using Generals already seem to be the default. Emperor Hardin (talk) 23:33, October 15, 2015 (UTC) So I noticed Ares says in the latest translation that his mom said Sigurd killed Eldigan, and died with rage and grief towards Sigurd. Mind if I add that to the Grahnye article? Also I might change the part about Iria(Grahyna in the manga) being hostile to Sigurd unlike Grahyne. Emperor Hardin (talk) 06:07, October 16, 2015 (UTC) :Do it. Don't mind me.--Otherarrow (talk) 14:49, October 16, 2015 (UTC) ::To explain Berwick's Axe knights, and Great Knights, they do indeed use mounts. They can lose their horses though, as they're equipment. Also thanks for pointing it out, the class list didn't list Great Knight as mounted, so I fixed it. Emperor Hardin (talk) 02:23, October 18, 2015 (UTC) ::::Emperor Hardin, did you at least check about axe knights? I played BS, and axe knights never seemed yo use mounts. In fact there are no mounted axe users in that game that I remember. You can check SF for confirmation on axe knights. 09:06, October 18, 2015 (UTC) ::::Sorry I made a mistake. I thought I remembered seeing a Berwick Saga video with a Generic enemy being battled, and them being a armored then usual Mounted Unit with Axes, with a iron helmet covering the top half of their head. Must've been a different class, or maybe I misrembered the weapon or mount? ::::So for Great Knight in Berwick Saga, should we count them as a new class, they are still axe specialists despite not being mounted? ::::Also I'm wondering if I should Old Knight as Iron Knight, all Iron Knights(no class bases in Berwick, it seems) have an unusually high defense as welll as the Bodyguard skill, however they are not an armored unit type, dismounted or not? Finally Slayer, the promotion for Dean, the Fighter, links to Berserker. I guess thats fine for now? ::::As for FE1 Generals, I always did notice all sprite, and animation lists for FE1 never included a General Lance animation. So I figured they either couldn't use Lances, or had the same animation for both Lances, and Swords. Emperor Hardin (talk) 04:59, October 19, 2015 (UTC) ::::To explain the Morva trivia briefly, basically before Myrrh finds out about his death, right when Lyon/Riev Kills him, far away Myrrh gets a mysterious feeling of dread when traveling to the Darkling woods. That might be too standard of storytelling device to note, I let you decide on its placemenet. Emperor Hardin (talk) 05:31, October 19, 2015 (UTC) Question Hey I'm extremely new to the Wiki scene. I joined because not all the Fates characters had their official art as their character profile thing. I found the 4-Koma and thought it needed to be added. I'll stop rambling and get to the reason for my message. I noticed you removed the picture for Felica. Was there something wrong with it?GaleforceFTWGaleforceFTW (talk) 18:57, October 16, 2015 (UTC) :File name was bad. We don't ask for super classified, but file names need to be more descriptive than just gibberish or "File:Image.etc" (which I think is the default?). In this case, File:Felicia 4-koma.jpeg would work. I notice you got it right with the Jakob one though...then reuploaded the image under File:Image.jpeg. Be careful about that.--Otherarrow (talk) 19:40, October 16, 2015 (UTC) I honestly don't remember how I did the file name for Jakob or how I somehow defaulted it. XD My only experience with Wika is fixing grammatical errors and such on the Final Fantasy Wiki. GaleforceFTW (talk) 19:49, October 16, 2015 (UTC) :Well, I don't know if it is different on the default Oasis skin, but you should be able to pick your destination file name as you are preparing the upload. Hope that helps!--Otherarrow (talk) 19:58, October 16, 2015 (UTC) As a heads up, the 4-Koma art isn't the "official" art as they were all done by guest artists and not Kozaki Are You Serious (talk) 21:24, October 16, 2015 (UTC) :The book itself is "official" and the art is probably as official as the DLC guest art from Awakening or other "alternate" art sources like the Super Tactics Book or the old TCG. In this case, Kozaki's art takes priority, obviously, but if it isn't around, the 4-koma art would take precedent, right?--Otherarrow (talk) 21:42, October 16, 2015 (UTC) Yeah, it should. I couldn't find any full-body pictures of any other characters outside of the ones Featured in the trailers. So 4-Koma is the only way to get those atm.GaleforceFTW (talk) Er some guest keeps deleting a trivia bit I put on Chrom's page. Since they're a guest I can't contact them to ask why they keep removing it. I'm going to put it back but I thought I would let you know. GaleforceFTW (talk) 15:50, November 10, 2015 (UTC) :I think the reference is too vague to determine definite "canon" (two ns btw), so yeah, I have to agree that the reference is unneeded. Sorry.--Otherarrow (talk) 19:24, November 10, 2015 (UTC) The Most Important Message Ever I love you, I love you~ I'm glad we're still together, sweetheart cutie! Just remember to keep your temper in check, regardless of what happens; you always have my back! :3-- The Tomato Fairy (talk) 11:30, October 17, 2015 (UTC) :I love you too sweetie! I will try to keep my temper in check. I always have sweetie's back!--Otherarrow (talk) 00:10, October 18, 2015 (UTC) DLC artworks & infoboxes This has been bugging me, as clearly stated in the policies, the infobox should use the most recent artwork of a character with the exception of which the character is more important to the story of the earlier game. Therefore, I was wondering why we were using the DLC artworks for the infoboxes of characters like Ike, Micaiah, Eirika, Ephraim... instead of those from the games where they're more important? Sorry if this has been discussed and resolved somewhere else. -- [[User:KhangND|'Khang']] (talk) 02:05, October 26, 2015 (UTC) :I think the problem is that, for most cases, the DLC art isn't a significant departure from their design for most people to notice, and even if it is (such as classes like Eirika or Seliph where their DLC class, and thus artwork, isn't even close design wise to their "normal" class), most people don't mind if the art is good. The DLC art people tend to contest are always, without exception, Micaiah or Ike, AKA the "bad" ones. Artwork that is well regarded, such as Leif or Alm or even Eirika (despite her radically different class) tends to, more often than not, get a free pass. So...hrm. While policy does say "most recent art", it also makes exceptions for when there is a major difference in role or relevance (such as Zephiel, who's more recent art isn't at all representative of his more iconic appearance and role). So policy does lean in favor of game artwork over DLC art (though I think Palla and Est would default to their old TCG artwork, as it is in the "character post" style that official art defaults to, and IS themselves has used the TCG art for official art purposes). However (and I see most of the DLC art reverters, for lack of a better term, doing this), the DLC art shouldn't be outright removed. It should be moved down the gallery where relevant (which, in terms of gallery order, should be after sketches and any other official art, but before "special" art like events or TCG). But I'm rambling now.--Otherarrow (talk) 03:22, October 26, 2015 (UTC) Lol, you sure did give me a tough time to read all that. Anyway, in short, should we now replace the DLC artworks with the main artworks (or TCG artworks where more appropriate) and move the DLCs to the gallery section? As long as we follow what was already written down in the policy, people won't be able to debate over which they prefer. -- [[User:KhangND|'Khang']] (talk) 05:09, October 26, 2015 (UTC) :Yeah, sorry about that, I got into a ramble. But yes, we should replace the DLC artwork with the official game art and move the DLC down. That was the tl;dr of my above post, sorry again. ^^;;--Otherarrow (talk) 15:20, October 26, 2015 (UTC) Alright! That's great. Sorry I can't help replace right now as it's already late in my timezone. I'll just do the background removal of the artworks tomorrow =] -- [[User:KhangND|'Khang']] (talk) 16:44, October 26, 2015 (UTC) Sweetheart My eyes are stinging and my head is fuzzy, but you're the reason why I'm working hard so much. Whatever that happens, I'm here for you. I love you. Again, heh. You're the light of my life, sweetheart cutie. --The Tomato Fairy (talk) 12:51, October 30, 2015 (UTC) :It's OK sweetie. I'll be here for you too sweetie. You are the best thing and I will do anything for you. Don't worry. Let's both work hard!--Otherarrow (talk) 15:48, October 30, 2015 (UTC) Summary Sorry, it's spellcheck. Not minivan, it was supposed to say Ninian. Ajitunes13. :Oh right. Anywho, I don't think Ninian/Nils is from boxart. First I saw of it was a scan from one of the artbooks. 20th Anniversary I think?--Otherarrow (talk) 00:49, October 31, 2015 (UTC) No, I've definitely seen it, I'm sure. Ajitunes13. :Well, in any case, like Eirika and Ephraim, it qualifies as it has been used as artwork separately from the boxart, while, again, the Fates boxart crops are literally just crops of the boxart and not used separately anywhere else (and why would they be? They are a bit specfic to the boxart's gimmick of two sides facing each other off).--Otherarrow (talk) 00:56, October 31, 2015 (UTC) Berwick saga, and Bandit archetype Do you think you could tell me on Serenes what you think of the Berwick Saga info? This could help us sort out the classes, and how to link them. Also I was thinking isn't there kind of a mini archetype of recurring bandit group early in the game? Like the Galder Pirates, Verdane, Lifis Pirates, Ganelon bandits, ETC? To qualify, I imagine they'd have to appear for more then one map. Emperor Hardin (talk) 10:39, November 4, 2015 (UTC) ::I don't like being PM'd on forums, can't you read my sig? Geez. Anyway, let's take a look. ::Well, hrm. I dunno if whole groups can fit, but the "beginning of the game bandits" does seem like a recurring thing, an easy way to have early conflict without making the main enemy faction seem so weak that the heroes could beat them right off. ::As for the class info, I think the big thing to remember is that, re:General: Armor Knight and General are unconnected in BS aside from both being armor units (compare FE1), so them not being visually or functionally similar does make sense. Also, likewise, Gigas Knight is another armor unit who isn't necessarily linked to the other two other than being the same "type" (like how Archers and Myrms are both infantry, but aren't linked by promotion or role).--Otherarrow (talk) 18:00, November 4, 2015 (UTC) :::Ah ok, sorry I didn't know that. I'll keep that in mind in the future. ::: I've noticed while a couple games seem to have an opponent besides Axe using criminals as the first opponents like Sacred Stones, and Thracia 776, Fates seems to be one of the only ones not to have bandits in the first three maps. Don't quote me on this though, as I haven't throughly checked chapter data for all games. There's definitely an archetype of a pirate/Brigand/Thief groups being the first opponents faced. ::: On FE1, I think Armor Knights were intended to become Generals all along personally. I've heard the programming of FE1 has it so promotion items only promote to a specific class, IE: If an Armor Knight used a Knight crest to promote in the game data via altering the game's data, he'd become a Paladin, unless you altered the Knight crest to promote all users into Generals. This is different from FE3 where promotion items, such as the Knight Crest are capable of promoting two different classes into different classes. ::: Generals look alot like King/Emperor in terms of comparatively more streamlined armor, they also wield swords unlike Armor Knights. Gigas Knights look a whole like Armor Knights in Berwick, however unlike Armor Knights, they cannot wield large Shields at all, trading some defense for massive offense. They also all wield the Gigas Axe weapon. I'm wondering if Gigas Knight should link to Axe General, or not? ::: Promotions and class changes are much rarer in Berwick Saga unlike Tear Ring Saga or Fire Emblem. While nice to have, promotions are not really essential. Classes, especially of playable characters, tend to be extremely individualized, both graphically, and weapon wise, two characters can be of the same class, and wield different weapons for example. Promotion is once again based on character. ::: The only caps for classes seem to be weapon rank, and stats appear pretty independent from class. For example, Spear Soldiers are usually weak, but a few boss, and NPCs of the class are powerful. ::: Right now, Slayer leads to Berserker, this probably works for now anyhow. Slayer seems to be exclusive to Dean. While the class has no skills on its own, like most classes in Berwick, Dean has base Wrath, which in Berwick can only be used by Axe users, Dean is the only playable character to have it, though several Axe using enemies like Brigands and Gigas Knights have it too. Dean also has a high critical hit chance, so are you ok with Slayer linking to Berserker? :::Emperor Hardin (talk) 21:12, November 4, 2015 (UTC) ::::Even so, what is there is there. Generals and Armor Knights are technically unlinked in FE1 (also, they have slightly different properties, Generals can't use magic swords, well, the one magic sword, but Armors can). ::::I'd probably err on the side of caution and keep it at Gigas Knight, especially since the General class in BS is completely different and Gigas Knight predates RD and the Axe General. ::::Like with TRS, we can use the playable's personal promotions to tell what class was intended to become what, as, from a look at things, there is even less deviation in promotions between character than in TRS, with the main differences being character specific traits (indeed, I think the only "split promotion" is that one Cleric promotes to Priest, the other to Oracle). So, for example, we can logically say Free Knight promotes to Paladin, even if only the "unique" Free Knights promote to Paladin and there are differences in equipment or skills between them. On the other hand, we can't "guess" that Armor Knight promotes to Gigas Knight, since the one Armor Knight the player controls doesn't promote. ::::Yeah, Slayer to Berserker is fine (in part because I am not sure we need to disambig Slayer).--Otherarrow (talk) 22:28, November 4, 2015 (UTC) :::::Its interesting to note anyhow. I'm guessing its one of the cut content from FE1. ::::: Okay Gigas Knight stays Gigas Knight, and no promotions will be mentioned because the playable Armor Knight doesn't promote, and they use different equipment. ::::: That sounds perfect, and I approve. ::::: Alright Slayer to Berserker stays ::::: Do you have any thoughts on the early Bandit archetype. ::::: Speaking of Archetypes, I think Derrick might fit pure Jagen more then Ward in Berwick Saga. Ward's growth are hardly great, but they're servicable, and higher then others. Ward is also required in the final chapter, and cannot be used in side missions. On Japanese sites, I've seen Dean called Axe Navarre, so I'm wondering if he'd fit? Emperor Hardin (talk) 22:44, November 4, 2015 (UTC) ::::: Derrick is technically optional, ain't he? Also, Ward seems to match the role more anyway. And I already commented on the bandit thing.--Otherarrow (talk) 23:52, November 4, 2015 (UTC) ::::: Derrick is technically optional, but he's significantly cheaper then anyone else. ::::: So you're unsure if whole groups can fit? ::::: Any thougths on Dean as a Navarre, he does fit the personality. Emperor Hardin (talk) 23:55, November 4, 2015 (UTC) ::::: Probably because he sucks Probably because of who he really is? Shrug. ::::: Yeah, but otherwise I can see it. ::::: I think him being "Axe Nabarl" is more due to his stat spread and skills than his archetype role? Shrug.--Otherarrow (talk) 00:12, November 5, 2015 (UTC) ::::: Hahaha, I heard he's extremely limited use early on. Its kind of interesting how many "Bad Growth" Jagen's are useful throughout the game, I was playing FE3 again, and Bantu really can pull his weight around for surprising reasons! ::::: I'll see what I can do then. ::::: Yeah, you may be right? I'll look into Dean more later. ::::: Finally I think Garo in Tearring saga might be an Oifey Jagen. The thing is while his growths are good, and he learns good skills, Garo is held back by his low movement, being unable to promote, and being in class(Pirate) with lower stat caps then anyone else. If he was a Warrior with no other changes, he'd actually be much higher Tier wise. Emperor Hardin (talk) 01:36, November 5, 2015 (UTC) ::::: So do you think Garo should stay in the pure Jagen archetype category?Emperor Hardin (talk) 21:46, November 5, 2015 (UTC) ::::::Yeah.--Otherarrow (talk) 22:22, November 5, 2015 (UTC) ::::::So what should determine the difference between Jagen and Oifey archetypes? Emperor Hardin (talk) 22:46, November 5, 2015 (UTC) :::::::Not the person to ask. If I recall from seeing the scans from a million years ago (which I can't find to confirm >_>), IS doesn't distinct between the two. I think the general gist of the fandom is that Jagen's have utility as a crutch for the early game, but no real potential; while Oifey's have that same crutch but are at least usable in the long run, if not top tier units like Seth or Titania. (though if I recall, in actual gameplay, Jagen is actually more valuable than Oifey, as while Oifey is the better in a vacuum, in the context of their games, he's completely outclassed by the kids, while Jagen at least has an early lead on the FE1 early units. But I digress)--Otherarrow (talk) 00:53, November 6, 2015 (UTC) ::::::: Well then its already confusing then. Dagdar is useful throughout the game as well, as is Ward(whose growths are better then some other characters), and Gunther's base stats late in the game can again compete with the others. I think the only thing separating the two should be the strength of their growths, not how useful they are in the long run. Garo's growths in Tear Ring saga are actually above average, and he is one of the only characters to get six skills, however a variety of factors hold him back Tier-Wise. As what holds Garo back is unrelated to his growth, rather its his being in a tier 1 class with low movement, and having no promotion, I think he should be an Oifey. Emperor Hardin (talk) 04:54, November 6, 2015 (UTC) FE6 Dragonpike? I tried to make a Dragonpike in FE6 using cheats, but failed to find out its item digit. So I went to Serenes Forest and saw that there isn't a single mention of the lance being in FE6. So I went to Japanese sites (specifically Pegasusknignt.com) and, again, found no mention of the lance. I wonder if the damn thing even exists, and if it does, if its stats present on it's page on the wiki are correct. 21:52, November 4, 2015 (UTC) :Beats me. I think there are prototype builds around, some with exclusive content (like FE8 having a few characters not in the main game), have you checked those?--Otherarrow (talk) 22:10, November 4, 2015 (UTC) :::Actually, I have just checked the prototype build for FE6 and the lance IS there. Seems like it was cut from the finished game. Checked some other things and found similarly cut Meteor tome (11 Might, 65 Hit, 5 Crit, 12 Weight, 5 Uses) and a weird Mercenary/Hero only sword (9 Might, 70 Hit, 10 Crit, 9 Weight, Brave effect, don't remember uses). And yes' the stats present on the wiki are correct, I guess it should be noted that the lance is only in beta-FE6. Thanks anyway. 22:25, November 4, 2015 (UTC) ::::More beta only weapons? Even Meteor? Add them if you can. Thanks for the help.--Otherarrow (talk) 22:30, November 4, 2015 (UTC) Gallery order Should be written down somewhere, don't you think? Even I had hard time remebering or figuring out the correct order, and you don't want to be the only one who have to correct them all the time, do you? -- [[User:KhangND|'Khang']] (talk) 00:38, November 16, 2015 (UTC) :Yeah, it probably should, especially if you think it's something worth having and not just me being incredibly anal over something minor. I wrote up my preferred gallery order on my (now outdated somewhat) example character page, and while that's not the best (as some things have come up since that I dunno what to do with), it gets the idea across. We can do a list or a visual example like that one?--Otherarrow (talk) 01:58, November 16, 2015 (UTC) :Side note, Knight Guy's page is hilarious. lol XD :User:Tiero (talk) 02:23, November 16, 2015 (UTC) Nah, something minor can be important sometimes, especially it's actually helping reading easier since we aren't dividing the galleries into more sections. I'll just go ahead and create a page in the Project namespace, make sure you add something I missed. -- [[User:KhangND|'Khang']] (talk) 02:42, November 16, 2015 (UTC) Quick comments ]]Bahanuke most definitely played a large part early on, I'm sure. The Unused Emperor class, which by the way uses Swords, Wind, Fire, thunder, and Dark Magic, looks identical to the Emperor. They're both emperors too obviously. Also I moved Garo to the Oifey archetype due to his good growths. Emperor Hardin (talk) 06:55, November 17, 2015 (UTC)